Friday, August 2, 2013

Friday News

In the news this week, there was another celebrity baby born.  I didn't pay much attention to that particular news story, but it was everywhere.

The other major news story this week comes from World Youth Day, held in Rio, Brazil. Over a million Catholics attended, including Pope Francis.  When it was over, Pope Francis gave an extended interview which lasted over an hour.

One of the questions was about the gay lobby in the Vatican. Pope Francis' response was about lobbies in general, and about gay people in general.  All he did was repeat the Catholic Church's stance on homosexuality, which hasn't changed in centuries.

As a result, there were dozens of news stories, saying that the Pope has changed the Church's beliefs on homosexuality. *face palm* It looked like this:

33 comments:

Suzanne Klare said...

I'm not gonna put a comment on these kinds of posts anymore because my opinion will wake up all of the trolls, and we already have enough of them on the blog I run. I don't want to give them to you.

Anonymous said...

I guess it just seems like a big deal because the previous Pope wasn't as...accepting...of homosexuality.

Anonymous said...

Nice contribution there, Suzanne Klare.

Kuhna said...

Well, of course the Church isn't going to change overnight, and of course the Pope isn't going to truly go against it in any significant way. I think the bigger point people are trying to make is that he seems to be a bit more ... not 'critical', but perhaps more 'objective?' ... to some minor aspects of the religion and its implements. That alone represents a lot to some, and not enough to others. And people in both groups can be incredibly biased and wildly misinformed.

I personally am only making note of what I've read on forums, so don't mind me.

Anonymous said...

Suzanne Klare, don't kid yourself. Your blog is not interesting enough to be trolled by more than like 1-2 people. Saying "all of the trolls" is rather an exaggeration is it not?

Anonymous said...

^Michael's blog gets a lot of trolls, and people who troll trolls, which are just as, if not more, annoying.

Brittany said...

Who cares what the Catholic Church does or says though? Like, how are they relevant anymore?

Anonymous said...

Brittany, lots of people care and the Catholic Church has been relevant for over a thousand years.

- Dante

Brittany said...

^ rrrrriiiiigggghhhttt...... >.>

Suzanne Klare said...

To the anonymous, yes, I am exaggerating, I admit that. I just realized, and I'm terribly sorry. I actually only have one troll, his name is Jake. Mostly, people praise the blog. I run it with Breanna(;, and William D, you might know them, so I'm not the only one, and I'm also sorry if I left that impression. Anyway, here's a link to the blog:
http://theswbchatblog.blogspot.nl/
Maybe if you check it out, Breanna(;, William and I will get another troll. Goodbye,

Suzanne

Brittany said...

Dante, I think that Brittany is just trying to troll. They may even be impersonating me since I've been a part of debates in the past. Or, you know, they're just ignorant. I personally think it's a bit of both.

Anonymous said...

Or you know, it wouldn't be surprising if the two of you had the same name.

Suzanne, nice self promotion there

Brittany said...

I've just never seen anyone with the same name as me comment on this blog. It's possible, but impersonating just seemed a bit more plausible, especially since it's happened a few times in the past. I just thought someone would try to pull something like that to get a major reaction and start a whole slew of comments.

Suzanne Klare said...

Hey. that's funny, today someone impersonated me too! Wow, that's almost weird...

Athena said...

“All he did was repeat the Catholic Church's stance on homosexuality, which hasn't changed in centuries.”

I’m going to have to disagree with you there. Francis’ laissez faire attitude towards homosexuals is a very recent shift in the Catholic Church, (as when I say recent, I mean like within the last two decades.) It’s practically a 180 degree change from Benedict who stated that open homosexuals will not be tolerated or accepted as clergymen. Benedict even once said that homosexaulity is, "a strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil,” and an “objective disorder."

Going back to Christianity’s roots, we find John Chrysostom, whom the church considers a saint saying, that homosexual acts are worse than murder, and so degrading that they constitute a kind of punishment in itself, and that enjoyment of such acts actually makes them worse: Additionally, he is documented as saying,

“But nothing can there be more worthless than a man who has pandered himself. For not the soul only, but the body also of one who hath been so treated, is disgraced, and deserves to be driven out everywhere."

Fast forward a little, and the Catholic Church in Europe during the Middle Ages was not exactly a beacon of tolerance and open mindnessess. In fact during this time, in direct contradiction to Francis, St. Peter Damian, wrote the Liber Gomorrhianus, which is an extended attack on both homosexuality and masturbation. He portrayed homosexuality as a counter-rational force undermining morality, religion, and society itself, and in need of strong suppression lest it spread even and especially among clergy.

Even Martin Luther, who is hailed for his reformation efforts, carried an attitude that homosexuals were from Satan and deserved death for it.

Today, we still kind of see this attitude among some Catholic countries. Uganda, a Catholic country, at one point, passed a law under Benedict's reign, that it was legal to kill homosexuals. Not just imprison them, but go so far as to kill them. They only repealed the law because of international pressure put on them, but Benedict did not do a lot to counteract this thinking. At no point did he ever say, “No, this is wrong. This is not what the Catholic Church supports, and this is not what we want Catholics doing.” He was just silent about the only thing, but even saying nothing can be saying a lot.

So, with all that said, people are so surprised with Francis because he is really the first one out the gate on this issue. Historically, he has very little Catholic support with his decision to allow openly gay Christians to serve both in the church, and as members. You’re right that he hasn’t changed anything doctrine wise, (Christians still view homosexuality is wrong), but he’s different because this is the first time a Pope is not condemning them. THAT’s what people are not used to seeing from Christians, and specifically, the Catholic Church, and it's a little shocking to see this change.

Brittany said...

You guys are freaks!!! I mean someone is impersonating me, special me! It is plausible! I think I am a drop dead gorgeous drag queen;)

Kuhna said...

Me too! I love you Michael you are hot!!! I am right there with you Brittany. Drop dead gorgeous drag queen!

Anonymous said...

^ Wow...real mature, guys.

Anonymous said...

Athena, The Catholic Church teaches that we should love our neighbor as ourselves or, in other words, we should love all people. What Pope Francis said is not a 180, he was simply reminding us of something that has been taught for over a thousand years.

There are some terrible sins committed in the world, but that does not mean that we should hate the people who commit them. Love the sinner, hate the sin--as it were

-Dante

James said...

Dante, I think you completely missed Athena's point. She was detailing the church's past attitude and history toward homosexuality, which is less then loving, that's fact, to the attitude they now have, which is now starting to show this "Christian love" it preaches. Francis is a 180 from Benedict. The quote in her first paragraph attributed to Benedict proves their polar opposite attitudes towards this issue.

Stephanie Braddock said...

Well, this is why I post on my Google account. People can't impersonate me that way. I agree with Athena completely; I think the new Pope is far more accepting of homosexuality, and in a drastic way. Though he has not claimed to support it, the fact that he does not condemn it or or the gays themselves says a lot to me. While I do agree with Michael that the entire affair is being blown out of proportion, I do recognize it's significance as well. But what I believe we need to realize is that the church is making steps in the right direction. I do not expect any rules or core beliefs to be changed during the Pope's lifetime, but the fact that we're making steps towards acceptance gives me hope of it's proximity. I hope that makes sense.

Anonymous said...

Wow. That is a good job of showing how the media botches up about what the Pope says. Thanks, Michael!!!:):):) God Bless you!!!:):):)
P.S. The media has a hidden agenda.

Anonymous said...

I would just like to point out a few quotes from Papa Bene about homosexuality.

'..According to the teaching of the Church, men and women with homosexual tendencies 'must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided'. They are called, like other Christians, to live the virtue of chastity.'

'Although the particular inclination of the homosexual person is not a sin, it is a more or less strong tendency ordered to an intrinsic moral evil, and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder.'

'It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the church's pastors wherever it occurs... The intrinsic dignity of each person must always be respected in work, in action and in law.'

Long story short, like Dante, I do not see how Pope Francis' view is a change from Pope Benedict's. The Catholic Church has always taught that homosexuality is a tendency toward actions that are seen as sinful. This does not mean that those who have these tendencies are bad in and of themselves. All people are equal and deserving of respect.

- Virgil

Purple said...

Yeah well what does it matter if gays are given the right to do their thing and marry. Let them. It doesn't hurt Americans or "straight people" in any way (go to hell with your tax driven incentives and moral religious arguments). Who cares? Let them have their happiness. Straight people have fucked up their marriages and done effed up shit plenty of times throughout history (just take a look at divorce stats in the US, history, etc. etc.). Who are we to prohibit same sex marriage?! If two people are in love, let them be. There's no reason to preach your own personal morals and ethics at them, it doesn't concern you. YOU ARE NO ONE TO THEM TO TELL THEM THEY ARE SINNERS AND WILL GO TO "HELL." It's really not your concern or the Catholic Churches, which I still feel like is rarely relevant in contemporary soceity's perception of self and faith.

Religion is so limiting. Don't do this. Don't do that. Yeah it creates an "order" in society, but aren't we a little beyond that now? Didn't we learn about the persecution of certain religious individuals over what they believed in? Jews, Muslims, Christians... all. Religions, while they seek to bring order to society and tell us right from wrong, still limit our perception of humanity. It's a code of conduct, a world of rules and regulations that we hope to aspire to and hope and pray for a whatever salvation. We believe in our sins and does that not limit us from who we are meant to become as well? I personally don't know, but I think that as part of the human race, intellectuals are more than welcome to question our existence. Religion is such a human construct, and while it never has seemed to initially mean harm to other humans, I can't help but think that the perspective of religion and human "rights" has become skewed.

In essence, I encourage individuals to think outside of the creationist, Adam and Eve, etc. viewpoint. There's so much more fascinating stuff occurring in out universe. Even if it is a certain "God" or interpretation of one, our planet Earth is definitely not the only planet with life. Science can and has proved that. What becomes of our so called "Gods" when we seek other life and the technological means to discover it?

Stephanie Braddock said...

Thank you, Purple. I agree completely. Honestly, guys, no one is going to make you have a gay marriage. We aren't going to make you marry a lesbian. Promise. So why are people so scared and frightened by this idea? It doesn't affect you, so why do you care? Why does the Church?

Anonymous said...

The thing is it does affect us, maybe not this exact minute, but it will in the future. It affects people's view of marriage, just like how no fault divorce has. Marriage is all about the bearing and protection of children, children need a stable mother and father in order to grow in a healthy way. Unfortunately, now people think that marriage is all about being in love. Yes, love is a big part of marriage, but there is more to it than that.

- Dante

Kuhna said...

I didn't have both a mother and father growing up. In fact, I was raised by two women. So thanks for your thoughtful words, Dante.

Why can't the view of marriage change?

Stephanie, I'm following your lead and using my blog account, ha.

Kuhna said...

Marriage is not all about love, no. Marriages, throughout the world and history have often been arranged before the spouses even set eyes on each other.

But what does that have to do with marriages being same-sex? How can it be bad if two people get married, who do love each other AND are willing to put in the effort to make a marriage solid, strong, and lasting?

What abut single parents raising kids? What about couples who love each other but don't want kids? What about couples who are sterile/barren? Should they not marry?

And if it doesn't hurt you or anyone else directly, what right have you to interfere? Racism is bad because it's hurting minorities. Slavery is bad because it hurts the person in submission. Lying is bad because it hurts the person being deceived. Stealing is bad because it hurts the person being robbed. Murder is bad because it hurts family and friends.

Love-filled, committed relationships - between two different genders, two different races, or the same of each - hurt ... who?

C said...

Does the Catholic church even realize that time actually passes? That time changes things?

Marriage is more about love and less about reproducing. Do you know why? Because we have that luxury. I'm guessing you don't get up at sunrise every day, go break your back under a hot sun in the fields, growing and selling crops so you can survive not just the winter, but the rest of your life.

I'm guessing you don't have enough political influence that who you marry effects entire countries and diplomatic relations.

That's why marriage has shifted. Because the entire world has shifted. Because, as Michael likes to serenades us, time marches on.

William D said...

Wow, the amount of trolls has amassed :o

Anonymous said...

... William, do you even know what a troll is? There are far fewer troll posts here than there are on the other heavily debating threads. You have actually qualified as a troll on at least one other thread, so don't go pointing fingers.

Stephanie Braddock said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
William D said...

Sorry, that wasn't me >:( I really need to get a blog account to -.-