Thursday, June 6, 2013

Changing the Definition of Marriage

In America right now, there is a lot of a talk about "changing the definition of marriage".

The last time our country changed the definition of marriage was in the 1950's, when "no fault" divorce became legal.  (A no fault divorce is one in which you can get a divorce, without needing to prove anything.)  The idea was that easy divorces would end absuive relationships and improve marriage as a whole.  That is certainly a praiseworthy goal.

"A lifelong commitment" was dropped from the definition of marriage, and the results were shockingly bad.  Divorce didn't improve the institution of marriage; divorce practically destroyed it.  The 2010 census tells us that 44% of all children are raised by single parents, not married parents.  Today, marriages with divorce are more common than marriages with "to death do us part"; the current divorce rate is over 50%, with the majority of marriages ending after 1-3 years and 18-20 years.

On one hand, I'm extremely reluctant to change the definition of marriage again, because the last time we changed it was such a huge disaster.  On the other hand, changing the definition of marriage again could be a good thing, provided that the new definition makes marriage more stable and beneficial to society.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that America's current definition of marriage is clearly flawed (and false).  We should change the definition, only if the new definition is an improvement. If a proposed new definition is worse than the one we currently have, I don't want it.

456 comments:

1 – 200 of 456   Newer›   Newest»
Breanna(; said...

I agree Michael. This world is in a bad shape!

Anonymous said...

Marriage involves a man and a woman commiting to each other for life and eternity. Today people change spouses like they change shoes. It is a major problem that needs to be resolved. Like you Michael I am afraid if the definition of marriage is to change it may make things worse.

Suzanne Klare said...

To the anonymous at 9:17 AM, it doesn't have to be a man and a woman. It could also be a man and a man who are getting married, or two women. At least, where I live it's legal.

Anonymous said...

I agree 100% with the person who commented at 9:17 A.M. Also @ Suzanne klare It is not natural for a man and a man or a women and a women to get married and I think that the people who do that are corrupted!

Anonymous said...

Hey Michael do you check your PMs on Fanfiction.net beacuse I sent you one

N.N.S said...

I agree with both of the anonymouses.

Suzanne Klare said...

Listen people, I commented that a man and a man can get married and two women can get married, but I don't agree with the anonymous at 9:28 AM.
So people who love each other in their one way are corrupted? That doesn't make any sense. If two women or two men are in love and want to get married, then let them be! YOUR statement is just discrimination. Would it HURT you if this happened? NO!
That's my opinion and I'm not going to take anything back.

Emily said...

I don't necessarily think that the problem is that it's too easy to get divorced, but that it's too easy to get married. It used to be that pretty much everyone who wanted to get married went through counseling and classes on how to make a marriage work first. There was a lot more emphasis on the marriage and not just the wedding.

The bridezilla culture that's so common today puts so much emphasis on making your wedding grand and acting like a princess for a day, but doesn't leave much room for building your relationship. The bottom line is (for whoever you decide to marry) you're going to wake up next to that person the next morning and be legally and spiritually bound to that person, and that's going to take a lot of effort on both spouse's parts to maintain. A lot of people don't get that and bail on the marriage the second things get hard.

Maybe I'm just a little sensitive on this subject because I'm starting to plan my own marriage, but I really think that everyone should go through counseling or a problem solving course before you have your wedding. That would probably really improve the divorce rate.

Anonymous said...

Back @ Suzanne Klare the Bible its self says. That nature its self teaches us somethings. You don't see dogs going with cats or frogs with birds. Let me clarify something so that it makes "sense" to you. I mean that i think it is sick for a man to marry a man or a women to marry a women and I'm Not going to back down from my God given, rights!!! I hope it makes sense now I'm sorry I didn't realize your brain couldn't process so much at one time.

Kata said...

Anon at 11:09, did you know that male/male and female/female pairs are found in nature? Perhaps nature can teach us some things. Dogs and cats are different species; males and females are not. And if you can't support your argument without resorting to rude comments (your last sentence), then don't comment.

Anonymous said...

@ Kata I shouldn't have said what I said in that last sentence and i'm sorry. but I meant all of the rest of it! You want something to back up my argument, In the KING JAMES VERSION Bible it says in Romans chapter 1 verses 26 and 7 it clearly states that For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into into that which is against nature: and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the women, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. This is not my words but the word of GOD himself.

Anonymous said...

@ Kata I made an error with the verses it is Romans 26 and 27 and the last word its met not meet

Miwako said...

I’m a Japanese-American woman. I lived in Japan for over thirty years before coming to the States. In Japan, where the population is overwhelmingly atheistic/agnostic Buddhist and Shinto, marriage is not a religious institution and never has been; in fact, marriage in Japan has nothing to do with God or our religions. Homosexuality was largely accepted in Japan until the 1800s (under the Meiji Era) when Japan ended its isolation state and started interacting with Westerns powers, thus becoming influenced by their “morality” laws (the laws were repealed a few years later.) Honestly, I’ve only seen such focus on the entanglement of God and marriage in the West, and more specifically, the States. I’m not saying that is right or wrong, but in my experience, God, religion, marriage, and the role they play with each other is purely cultural. Here, it’s important and a part of the ceremony. In Japan, it’s not, and it has been that way for thousands of years and it works just fine. Doesn’t make our way right or wrong, and it doesn’t make the States’ way right or wrong-it’s just cultural differences.

Anyway, that’s my two cents. It is quiet the cultural shock to see Americans become so impassionate over an issue that’s not really one in Japan. Thank you for talking about this one and presenting me with another’s culture point of view. I do appreciate learning about American customs.

Miwako said...

I’m a Japanese-American woman. I lived in Japan for over thirty years before coming to the States. In Japan, where the population is overwhelmingly atheistic/agnostic Buddhist and Shinto, marriage is not a religious institution and never has been; in fact, marriage in Japan has nothing to do with God or our religions. Homosexuality was largely accepted in Japan until the 1800s (under the Meiji Era) when Japan ended its isolation state and started interacting with Westerns powers, thus becoming influenced by their “morality” laws (the laws were repealed a few years later.) Honestly, I’ve only seen such focus on the entanglement of God and marriage in the West, and more specifically, the States. I’m not saying that is right or wrong, but in my experience, God, religion, marriage, and the role they play with each other is purely cultural. Here, it’s important and a part of the ceremony. In Japan, it’s not, and it has been that way for thousands of years and it works just fine. Doesn’t make our way right or wrong, and it doesn’t make the States’ way right or wrong-it’s just cultural differences.

Anyway, that’s my two cents. It is quiet the cultural shock to see Americans become so impassionate over an issue that’s not really one in Japan. Thank you for talking about this one and presenting me with another’s culture point of view. I do appreciate learning about American customs.

Diana said...

Here you go again Michael!
You raise an issue and declare an opinion without ever stating what that opinion is.
What is the point? What is your position? Why the innuendo?
Grow a pair and say what you think.
What do YOU think the definition of marriage should be?

Alexis Nicole said...

Kata who are you to tell that anonymous person that they can not comment if they really felt that way that's their business not yours.

Miriam said...

It's amazing how rude people can get when talking about a subject based on love, especially when they're choosing to comment on a personal blog of someone who has clearly stated his beliefs to us... :/
If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all.

Kata said...

Alexis, I'm fine with her stating her opinion. I respect her opinion and I respect her passion. I do not respect insulting others' intelligence just because they have a different opinion ("I didn't realize your brain couldn't process so much at one time").

Anonymous said...

kata I said I was sorry for saying that. I really shouldn't have and I am truly sorry.

Alexis Nicole said...

To Kata: Well I kind of believe that Suzanne Klare was being rude she said that the anonymous person's statement was discrimination and that it didn't make any since I thought it made a great deal of since and still do Suzanne was rude to her first she was just defending herself.

Breanna(; said...

If everyone could just be nice to each other this world would be a whole lot of a better place.

Brittany said...

I agree with Suzanne Klare wholeheartedly. And to Alexis, Ms. Klare's comment was no where near the rudeness of Anon's comment. It's true though - you are definitely discriminating when you are keeping people from doing what they want to do, especially when it doesn't even affect you. You want to keep people from living the way they want to because you're so afraid that someone else's love life will affect your life. It's pointless to bring up the bible issue, because NOT EVERYONE BELIEVES IN GOD. Not everyone follows the bible (if you're a female, I sure hope you don't cut your hair or engage in pre-marital sex). Stop putting your nose in other people's businesses. You aren't "saving them" from hell or whatever when you say gay marriage shouldn't happen. In my eyes, God made everyone how he wanted to make them. You shouldn't punish them for being how they are or what they want, just like you're supposed to love your neighbor no matter what sins they've committed. You aren't being a savior, you're being a douche.

Brittany said...

Also, I loved reading your post, Miwako! :)

Anonymous said...

Marriage was designed for man and woman. Homosexuality is against nature, and is a mental illness. In fact, studies have shown that a vast majority of homosexuals were raised in dysfunctional families. We are not being hateful, and we are certainly not afraid of them, but we disagree with it because it is wrong. And if they "change the definition" of marriage on this, than what is stopping them from making it okay for say, a brother and sister to get married? Or three people to get married to each other? Besides, marriage is not something that should be messed with. It is a union of a man, a woman, and God. The TRUE definition has nothing to do with the state and therefore, they do not have the power to change it.

Alexis Nicole said...

@ Brittany the anonymous person said she was sorry more than once and she is not keeping any one from doing what they want to do she just said she thought what they do is wrong.

Brittany said...

Alexis, I only think Anon apologized because they were called out. If they really didn't mean it, they would have been a bit more careful with their words. But that's just what I think.

And 7:14 anon, please, please, please show us these studies, because there are plenty of heterosexual people that have grown up in unstable homes. Don't be that ignorant.

Also, the state has everything to do with marriage anymore. If the state of even federal government allowed homosexuals to become engaged in a "Civil Union" or something like that, and completely take out any mention of religion, would everyone be ok with that? People can legally marry their first cousins in some U.S. states. Polygamy most definitely exists. What say you of arranged marriages, or people who have divorced? Are they not worthy of God's love anymore?

Jake said...

I'm sorry but Brittany aren't you sticking your nose into other peoples business???

Alexis Nicole said...

Oh I suppose you have never made a mistake in your life. Hey every one lets just bow down to Brittany queen of no mistakes.

Brittany said...

Nice comment there, Jake. I'm just trying to sort out fact from opinion. It's fine for people to believe what they want to believe, but when someone says something like, "In fact, studies have shown that a vast majority of homosexuals were raised in dysfunctional families," or, "...people who do that are corrupted," it's very bothersome, especially in the first example, which is absolutely wrong.

You know, this kind of debate was happening like this decades ago, but with interracial marriage. This seems like we've just repeated history.

Brittany said...

Alexis, what parts of my comments indicated that I have never made mistakes?

Jake said...

Your very welcome

Alexis Nicole said...

@ Brittany Well your so quick to judge other people. I really believe that anon meant her i'm sorry or she wouldn't have said it.

Alexis Nicole said...

She didn't have to say she was sorry.

Brittany said...

Alexis, talk about being quick to judge others...But even if I was so quick to judge others, that doesn't mean that I've never made mistakes. The comment that anon made was severely rude, offensive, and uncalled for. Maybe they do really feel bad about it, but I'm just calling it as it looks from an outsider, and that view is that the apologies only came after being called out. But of course, the apologies are much better than nothing.

Brittany said...

Alexis, you're totally right about her not being forced to say anything at all, but people say things they don't mean all the time. Especially on the internet.

Stephanie Braddock said...

I can not believe the level of discrimination and prejudice some of you have. You have this total sense of rightness about what you believe in; did you ever stop to think that maybe your way of thinking isn't the only way? Or that maybe not everyone believes in god? Both homosexual and heterosexual people have the EXACT SAME FEELINGS. Homosexual people just happen to be a minority. Imagine a world where everyone was homosexual; heterosexual marriage was frowned upon, and being 'gay' was the way to be. How wrong would you find that?

Just decades ago segregation was strong and black people were considered inferior, without the same rights or freedoms as white people. This is the EXACT SAME SITUATION, with the homosexuals playing the role of blacks and heterosexuals playing the roles of a primarily white-run society. When crusaders like MLK came around, many disagreeded with what he had to say. That's happening now to, as history repeats itself. You don't have a lock on emotions and feelings; they're just as real when other people feel them too. So stop being ignorant and concieted and think about THAT. Love is just as strong between a man and a man, a woman and a woman, or a man and a woman. That's coming from a 15 year old. What I'm trying to say is, just because you don't like or believe in something, that doesn't make it wrong or unnatural. Maybe that's what makes it right.

Anonymous said...

These comments took an unsurprisingly inevitable turn :P I agree with what Emily says - I think it's too easy for people to get married, and I also think that too many people don't realize what they're getting into when they decide to marry. I think for the present, we can just stop saying, "Til death do us part," because then we wouldn't be lying!

Alexis Nicole said...

If people say things that they don't mean all of the time on the internet then whats to say she really didn't mean it just give her a break.

Anonymous said...

Hear, Hear, Stephanie!

Brittany said...

Alexis, as you wish. I just hope anon refrains from using such comments in the future.

Anonymous said...

I agree with you and 9:17 am guy! (Or 9:17 am girl...)

Talisa said...

Go Alexis and Jake i'm behind you 100%

Stephanie Braddock said...

So now it's corrupted to love someone? What if I said its corrupted for a man and a woman to love each other, or get married? You'd feel it's going against your beliefs. That's how all those people you just called wrong feel! Homosexual people are NOT DIFFERENT THAN HETEROSEXUAL PEOPLE! How often do I need to say that for you to just GET it? And before you brand me as 'gay' or 'lesbian', I'm not. And I still feel just as strongly about these issues. Just because you find out someone is attracted to the same sex doesn't make them any different from the person they were before you knew, and it doesn't make them wrong. Maybe some of you are scared, I really don't know. But I do know that people love who they love; love doesn't conform to society, or to your beliefs.

Anonymous said...

I'm going to stay anonymous but I am a girl thank you for the sweet comment(;

Alexis Nicole said...

@ Stephanie No one said it was corrupted to love some one she said she thought it was corrupted for men to marry men and wemon to marry wemon!

Stephanie Braddock said...

Isn't marriage what occurs when you love someone? Don't people marry when they're on love? I think that's EXACTLY what they were saying, and to be honest, it makes me feel sick that people harbor so much hate towards people they've never met. Either way, my point remains exactly the same. You're trying to keep people from being happy. What are they supposed to do, live their lives being miserable because you don't agree with what they feel?

Emily said...

I wholeheartedly agree with you, Michael. I hate it when people say marriage equality is going to ruin the sanctity of marriage. As you said, divorce did a pretty good job of screwing up the institution of marriage.

If you don't like gay marriage, then don't get one. If gay marriage is legalized nationwide, no one is going to force you to marry someone of the same sex. Two men or two women getting married isn't going to affect you at all. I have yet to find someone who can tell me why and how marriage equality is going to ruin their marriage. It's not like they're wanting to ban all heterosexual marriages and make only homosexual marriages legal.

Anonymous said...

Michael, I think that marital stability is completely dependent on love and commitment in a relationship, not the gender of people in the relationship. I know lots of same-sex couples, and they're just as committed to one another as heterosexual couples.

I think a lot of people are concerned that their religious freedoms will be compromised due to the legalization of same-sex marriage, which wouldn't happen (at least in my state, where clergy members can refuse to marry same-sex couples even though marriage is legal).

Another concern a lot of people seem to have about same-sex marriage is whether or not gay couples can be good parents. I know children with same-sex parents, and they are clearly happy children with bright futures. They are brought up better than a lot of children I know from heterosexual parents.

I think opposing same-sex marriage hurts society more than helps it, because opposing same-sex marriage basically gives children with gay parents the message that they aren't as valuable as children with straight parents.

Stephanie Braddock said...

THANK YOU! That is exactly how I feel. You don't have to like gay marriage, and you certainly don't have to participate in it, so why are you so against it? If you want the government to tell you what you can and can't do, move to somewhere communist. This nation was founded upon the basis of freedom of the people; why change that?

L. j .N said...

Who said anything about hating gay people and NO ONE IS KEEPING ANYONE FROM BEING HAPPY if you ask me I think what the anonymous above me and Emily and Stephanie all had to say sounds CRAZY not to mention discusting those children are doomed beyond repair.

Brittany said...

"I think a lot of people are concerned that their religious freedoms will be compromised due to the legalization of same-sex marriage..." I think this is true as well. Whey does a person's personal relationship and belief with whatever high power they believe in have to change because of a choice someone else made? It just seems so silly!

Jake said...

Brittany I think its past your bed time.

Brittany said...

L.j.N, you are completely free to believe what you want, but your comment is very narrow-minded. You saying, "...not to mention discusting (disgusting?) those children are doomed beyond repair." Forgive my audacity, but who the hell are you to decided who is "doomed," and what that even means.

Also, IT IT TOTALLY KEEPING PEOPLE FROM BEING HAPPY AND YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT COMPLETELY. Imagine if you couldn't marry the person you loved because other people didn't think it was acceptable. You would probably be sad or otherwise affected in some negative way!

Brittany said...

Jake, wat. My age has no matter in the subject. You don't even have any idea where I live.

Also, please attempt to utilize proper grammar. Please learn the difference between your and you're, as well as its and it's. I wasn't going to be "that person," but your comments are getting pretty dumb.

L.J.N said...

I think i'm L.J.N honey and ALSO I think your just as messed up as the people I commented about!!!

Jake said...

I just want to be like you. Your comments got dumb forever ago wait a minute not dumb dumb is an understatement I meant utterly ridiculous

Brittany said...

LJN, you cray cray.

L.J.N said...

Whatever girl you passed cray cray a long time ago.

Brittany said...

Jake, The only time you've chimed in on this thread is to ridicule me. Real nice.

Still, work on that grammar thing. I suggest commas next time.

Brittany said...

LJN, Is a long time ago like 2 hours to you? Because that's how long I've been commenting XP

Jake said...

I'll work on my grammer if you'll work on how to write a sentence.

L.J.N said...

You must not have a life if you've been on here for 2 hours:D

Brittany said...

Jake, no can do. It looks like I'm a lost cause when it comes to writing sentences.

Emily said...

I'm crazy for having an opinion? Hey, thanks!

I know a lot of homosexual couples who are pretty unhappy because people think their love is wrong and disgusting. Have you ever stopped to consider that maybe they find heterosexuality disgusting? You see heterosexuality as normal. They see homosexuality as normal. What's normal to me isn't necessarily normal to other people, and that's okay. What is normal, anyway? That's not really up to any of us to decide.

Sexual orientation isn't contagious or hereditary. The sexual orientation of the parents isn't going to determine the sexual orientation of the children. Homosexual parents aren't going to necessarily produce homosexual offspring. What I hope they do produce, however, is children who are more tolerant and accepting of others who are not exactly like them.

Brittany said...

LJN, it's called multitasking! :D I can do multiple things on my computer at the same time.

Breanna(; said...

Guys I think we are way off Michael's subject here. This feels like a war zone and every one just keeps firing missles at each other it's very immature.

Brittany said...

Breanna, definitely XP Michael is probably gonna have an awful time weeding through these comments.

Sorry, Michael! :(

Jake said...

Hey Ljn she can multitask but she can't write sentences. What else do you do when you are multitasking watch Dora.

Sarah said...

Jake I think you sound like its past your bed time. Your comments really are getting dumber.

Blackledge said...

Looking at the content of the original post, yes, changing the definition of marriage may be a bad thing like it was before, but if we’re talking about allowing people of the same sex to get married, I see no problems arising from that, only benefits. And like Emily said, the problem is that it’s way too easy to get married, not divorced. Divorce should always be an option if someone turns abusive or something.
Forgive me, because I’m gonna do a little comment trolling now.
Lol at 11:09. I suppose you don’t see dogs going with birds, but you see them going with each other, regardless of gender. What do you mean by your God given rights? You have a right to get married and no one’s asking you to back down from that…but if you think you have a right to dictate other people then you know nothing about Christianity. Also I’m a Christian 
In reality, sexuality has nothing to do with Christianity or any religion, and I think everyone knows this deep down. By sanity and logic, the Bible clearly isn’t meant to be taken literally, and of course none of you are doing the insane things it tells you to do everywhere else. You’re just looking at a few lines because they suit your disgust and that somehow gives you the power to turn it into legislation. It’s ridiculous. If you’re so worried that the presence of homosexuality will be bad for you, then you probably have tendencies of it already and just don’t want to acknowledge them. So dramatic!
I can’t even laugh at these children because of how pathetic they are. You detest something so much that you make up studies to say that a neurological condition is a mental illness. If you lived in the 1950s, I suppose you could say the same thing about skin color. As in, why would anyone not want to be white? Surely non-white people have used the power of their own sick suggestion to physically change their skin. And they’re all poor, never mind that white people systematically made them poor! How convenient.
By saying the union of God is the true definition of marriage, you’re still changing it, since marriage was around thousands of years before Jesus was born. So Christianity has no claim to its ownership. As if that even matters, though, since the government cannot make laws on religion, let alone a gross misinterpretation of one! The fact is that people need marriage for all of its legal “benefits” that are necessities if a relationship is to be sustained. Couples need to share possessions and houses and the like, even children. There have been cases where children have been taken away from same sex parents, probably to be given to some abusive sex crazed God-approved hetero couple. And as for the question as to whether this would lead to multiple people getting married, why would that be a problem? Is that just another thing you wouldn’t personally do and therefore feel like the rest of the world should conform to it?
Personally, I think heterosexuality is disgusting and illogical, but people of the opposite sex are still getting married. In fact, one may even argue that it’s corrupted the world. You don’t see two men or two women wanting to get married immediately after one drunken night. See, I don’t necessarily mind hateful people (unless you’re just absolutely atrocious and/or dangerous) as you can tell I’m kind of one myself. What I don’t like is when people don’t own their hatred. Actions speak louder than words, so you’re not going to push anyone else away by just admitting it.
I love how these people can’t ever write properly and are always mean. Like I’m seriously imagining a middle aged fat white woman who has nothing better to do than to write comments like these on the internet.
And Alexis’s comment at 4:58…Just no.
L. J. N. also doesn’t realize that this discussion is literally about keeping people from being happy (“happy” meaning “retaining their sanity by being able to experience love, as in, THE VERY PURPOSE OF LIFE”). Such delusions, as well as being unable to spell properly, make a person beyond repair. I assume he/she’s some incest product.

Anonymous said...

Blackledge you are way out on a limb. You are gross number one number 2 I don't know how on earth you can call yourself a Christian I mean what does the definition Christian mean to you? Your whole comment made absolutely no sense whatsoever. You've got some serious issues.

Alexis Nicole said...

Man you are crazy.

Alexis Nicole said...

My comment above was to blackledge. Also your comment is twisted.

Anonymous said...

okay but the thing i don't understand about this is how people seem to believe that we can deny this right to people when it doesn't even impact you immediately? you can be as bigoted as you want but nobody is forcing you to marry somebody of the same sex. why wouldn't you allow someone happiness? why would you deny them that right? this is such an off-putting argument. nancy drew wouldn't stand for this.

Anonymous said...

DON'T YOU PEOPLE GET IT! Men marring men and wemon marring wemon is far from being sick or discusting. It is vile, dirty, wicked, messed up and completely insaine. Who cares if it makes a gay or lesbian sad if they here that what they believe is corrupted they should feel sad I would want some one to lock me up in the mental ward because that is a mental illness and I don't care what any one says it's the bottom line truth. Did you know that it is still in the law books as illegal they just don't enforce it and if you don't believe me look it up. I believe that anyone that thinks that homosexuality isok is full of satan and is definitely beyond repair.

Anonymous said...

@ anonymous at 11:29 Nancy Drew isn't real.

Anonymous said...

Sorry for any bad grammar or misspelling; I am typing this on my phone:

Well, hi there, I am a woman who is gay. I guess I am disgusting and evil and wrong, it sure is nice to be inundated with these hateful messages on a daily basis, so thanks for that. As a gay woman, I can tell you that the simple reality is that I was born this way. I look at women and am (sometimes) attracted to them. I look at men and am not. It is the simplest and most natural thing in the universe, just as simple and natural as when you straight women and men see the opposite sex and feel attraction. If you try to overcomplicate this simple fact with complicated justifications about why I am sick and messed up, I can tell you that you are, quite simply, wrong. Keep hatin' and have a good night.

James said...

I have to admit, speaking as a European, I’m with Miwako on this one. I don’t get how secular societies are allowed to dictate marriage on religious grounds, (especially since not all Americans are Christians.) For Buddhists, marriage isn’t a religious practice, and homosexuality is not prohibited in their scripture. So does that mean gay, American Buddhists aren’t allowed to marry in the States?

Blackledge said...

NANCY DREW WOULDN'T STAND FOR THIS OH MY GOD

The reality is these people just have very low IQs (hence the law books comment?). It would be cute if it weren't so sad. You just haven't found the right man/woman yet.

Yeah, the anti-straight hatred isn't very Christian of me, and I'm aware of that, but that was part of the point - I'm half trolling. Maybe. At least I'm still far more Christian than these commentators. You know, the entire point is loving everyone - literally all God wants us to do...

And I agree, marring people does sound pretty horrific.

Jared said...

It is true that is still in the law books did you take time to look it up and see if what they said is right because it is.

Anonymous said...

im gonna go watch some gay porn

peace

Anonymous said...

@ anonymous that commented at12:25 a.m. Go ahead you sick mental retard.

Anonymous said...

thanks for your permission because you matter soo soo much.

Anonymous said...

To the anonymous above me. Why would you even say something so awful like that it doesn't even count AT ALL as a comment on Michaels subject children get on this blog ya know and I don't think that they should have to see comments like that.

Anonymous said...

I present to you a narrative:

The 12-year-old southern, homeschooled Christian was bored. "What should I do?" The young emo asked herself. "I know. I'll read a magazine."

She flipped open a nearby 17 magazine and enjoyed ogling the shirtless boys displayed rampantly throughout its pages.

"Shoot, he's hot, y'all," she drawled in a thick southern accent, grabbing a pair of scissors to cut out the picture and hang it on her wall amongst many other young shirtless boys. "I love boys so much. Wow. I'm truly doing the work of the Lord. Jesus must really love me, since I am straight."

She flipped another page and stared at Aaron Carter, or whoever kids like these days. "It's hard work sometimes, but my attraction to the male gender makes me so much holier than those gay people, merely by the act of me fapping to Justin Bieber's swaggy abs."

She flipped her emo bangs, feeling throughly holy. "Those gays are really sick and demented and should die in a firy pit. I'm so much better of a person," She said while posting hateful comments anonymously online.

Anonymous said...

but yet i can get called a sick mental retard? hmm i'll make a note of that

Anonymous said...

That's right!!!!!! To the person above me finally you understand and will change your sick ways.

Anonymous said...

You should have been called worse to the person that commented at 12:47.

Anonymous said...

i truly feel enlightened now, i'll go join the westboro baptist church too.

ps i hope you let me join your anti gay club because you know, i've been thinking about how much sense 13 year olds make when they get angry that someone does not agree with them or has a different opinion

it's an epiphany and you should probably go finish your homework

Anonymous said...

For your information I am Thirty years old and I think it is you that has no idea what you're talking about. If what I said about gays and lesbians made you upset then you should go cry to your mommy because I still believe that and i'm NEVER going to change my mind and I know a whole lot of Normal people who believe the same thing.

Anonymous said...

MOMMMMMMMMM

oh god, they made me cry!

*cries hysterically*

Anonymous said...

Listen I have nothing more to say to you because you insist on acting like the child that you are so bye!

Anonymous said...


im just a sick mental retard who loves the gays. whatever, it's better than being a prejudiced moron like half the commentators before me.

*cries some more*

bye!

Stephanie Braddock said...

You use the term 'normal people' so decisively. Who's to say who's normal and who's not?

Stephanie Braddock said...

Don't you see? You are DEFINITELY, COMPLETELY keeping them from being happy! What if the Bible suddenly said "marriage is between a woman and a woman, or a man and a man". Don't you dare tell me you would never be unhappy for being unable to marry the person you love. I quite honestly feel sorry for you. Empathy seems to be beyond your abilities.

Stephanie Braddock said...

Yep. I'm a fifteen year old Satanist, because I believe in the words "all men are
created equal". Worse, I believe that no matter who you have feelings for, you should have the freedom to be with that person. I am, as you so nicely put it, "beyond repair", and need to be locked up in a mental ward. What if you found out your best friend, or your sister, or your cousin was 'gay'? Would you hate them? Never speak to them again? Because they are beyond repair and belong in a mental ward, afte all. Heck, I'm practically a psychopath! Who cares about other things, like if I'm nice or smart or, as it's so important, 'straight'? Obviously believing in what is ALREADY becoming legal makes me a Satanist. Hate to break it to you, sweetheart, but you just called around half of all government officials corrupted. Oops.

Brittany said...

To the anon at 12:29 am: Yesh, if you could not use "retarded" as an insult, that'd be great. If you can't muster up any other insult without resorting to something other than "sick mental retard," try consulting urban dictionary or something rather than looking like an insensitive prick.

Anomaly 12:43 am: No one has to change or censor what they say because of the possibility of "children" reading this blog. If the child is enough for the word "porn" to affect them so severely and turn them into a degenerate or something, maybe their parents shouldn't let them browse the Internet willy-nilly. There have been serious topics on this blog before, topics that really aren't appropriate for children (because they can't understand). This isn't a blog specifically designed for children, therefore we shouldn't have to accommodate for them.

Anonymous said...

@Brittany not to mention all the hateful slurs spewed on this entry. I like how anon thinks that somehow the term "porn" is more inappropriate for children to see than hateful slurs. hint: it's not.

Kuhna said...

Well dang this escalated.

Look, no one is going to change their views here; that's just how we are.

It would be too much to ask for people against this to suddenly become for it, and vice-versa.

But how can you ignore this fact: that LGBTQ (did I get that right?) 'decisions' (it's proven that younger brothers in a line of sons have more of a chance of being gay for purely biological reasons) hurt absolutely no one. NO. ONE. You might argue that it hurts God, but then, EVERYONE hurts God every day of their lives - but that is between the individual and God.

But your decisions are hurting people. Your decisions are hurting people who aren't hurting anyone else. Even if you don't agree with their 'choices', purely from a moral standpoint I can't see how that is right or kind or loving, which is exactly what your Jesus SAYS TO BE. Great job, going against the greatest teacher.

I'm not asking you to change your beliefs. I'm asking you to at least be DECENT. Stop calling people sick and retarded and sinful, etcetera. That is way uncalled for, and completely un-Christlike. You may not agree, but for goodness' sake, know when to back off where you're not needed or wanted in the affairs of others. You are not spreading love, as you are instructed by the Bible.

Michael, who probably didn't expect any of this - I am sorry your post got out of hand. To be fair, if you had been more specific in your original post about what you really mean, as Diana above mentioned, then this might not have escalated. You do have a habit of never truly disclosing your own personal viewpoint. I don't know if that's intentional, but it's interesting, though sometimes frustrating.

Breanna(; said...

This totally proves my theory that the world is in a bad shape!

Abigail said...

Gay people are not doomed beyond repair if they will repent and turn away from sin then God will forgive them.

Kuhna said...

Abigail, they are not 'doomed' anyway, because even if it is a sin, God forgives regardless. Sin is already expiated. How about you turn away from sin? You can't, I can't; we all sin every day.

Brianna . S said...

PRAISE THE LORD GLORY TO GOD he is the king of kings and the lord of lords the one who created every one and every thing Praise THE LORD JESUS CHRIST'S HOLY NAME no one is greater and never will be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

Stephanie Braddock said...

You're all acting as if you know the will of god, and his wishes. But you DON'T. There's no way for you to. I am realizing now how difficult reaching you would be; it's nearly impossible. But know that maybe your precious god doesn't agree with you. Talk of sin, but haven't you sinned just by commenting in this way? I can't convince you to feel differently. But know THIS. You can't stop this from happening. It's going to happen with or without you. And when it comes to pass, it will be accepted. It will be in history books. Think of the revulsion you feel when you think of slave owners, or people who campaigned for segregation. Well one day, that will be you. Maybe you're the one who should be repenting.

Abigail said...

I have found the source to true happiness it is in the lord Jesus Christ any thing else is not true happiness. ALSO PRAISE GOD Brianna!!! Your absolutely right! I repeat what she said in the last sentence the scripture that says and be ye not deceived, God is not mocked: For whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Natalie said...

That is a powerful verse of scripture people should really take to heart. Also kuhna We all don't sin every day. When you get truly saved god removes the sin from your heart and gives you a new heart. I don't sin every day I don't sin at all but when I make a mistake I ask god to forgive and he does. I don't believe the once saved always saved thing God says in the bible GO AND SIN NO MORE.

Jeff said...

TO: Stphanie. All of this coming from a Satanist. Its like your taking both GOD and satan's side there isn't any middle ground you either pick GOD or the devil.

Stephanie Braddock said...

It's called sarcasm, surely you've heard of it.

Stephanie Braddock said...

Turn away from sin? Live a lie, you mean. Being 'gay' isn't just something they can turn off; it's part of them. It's like asking them to cut off an arm, they were made that way for a reason.

Kuhna said...

Abigail, you are sowing hate and intolerance.

Natalie: Okay, fine, you don't sin. I'm glad you're absolutely perfect in God's eyes. But it's not your business to judge whether or not someone else is or isn't Saved, whether or not they have asked for forgiveness, and whether or not they have been forgiven. Their sin does not involve you. Murderers, liars, cheaters, adulterers - their sin hurts other people. Who, besides God, does homosexuality hurt? Further - homosexuality need not necessarily involve sex or sodomy. How is pure, intangible love towards someone of the same sex hurtful?

And what, exactly, was your point in your last post?

Natalie said...

They weren't made that way stephanie they chose to be that way. I don't hate any one but satan and i'm not perfect like I said I make mistakes just like everyone else but I don't get up every day and deliberately sin the point I was making in my last post is GOD said go and sin no more that means that you don't sin every day or at all. You stop sinning altogether.

Stephanie Braddock said...

But Natalie, it isn't a sin! And yes, they were born that way, ask any homosexual person out there. You were born attracted to guys, were you not? Attraction is also something you can't just turn off. It's not some kind of light switch.

Natalie said...

GOD is not mocked what he says will come to pass. One day you will see that you were wrong because he is coming back. Don't tell me that we are all hating on gay people when you're posting comments that clearly speaks hate towards Christians.

Kuhna said...

Natalie, it is not a choice. Why would anyone choose to subject themselves to the judgement that you are passing on them?

And no, it's not a choice. As I said, just one corner of study shows evidence that younger boys in a line of sons are more likely to be gay PURELY FOR BIOLOGICAL REASONS.

How can you even judge if it is a choice? YOU CANNOT. You do not know peoples' hearts. Only God does. Are you claiming to be omniscient?

And I doubt someone who resolves to never ever sin again won't actually ever sin again. But that's why Jesus died, is it not? Are you saying Jesus' crucifixion was pointless?

And I shall re-iterate: I, personally, am not asking you to change your views. I am asking you to act decently towards other people and at the very least allow them to 'sin' in peace. If their sin does not hurt ANYONE and makes THEM HAPPY, who are you to deny them that? If it bars them from Heaven - guess what? That's their own problem, not yours.

Kuhna said...

And hey, I don't hate Christians. I am a Christian! And gays can be Christian too! Just because they go against one aspect of the Bible (which, I think I've read, is mentioned only 7 times in the Bible) does not mean they are atheists. If you truly think it is a sin, then anyone who sins, by your logic, is not a Christian.

Blackledge said...

Haha yes 12:43, think of the children! They shouldn’t see comments about porn. Instead they should be introduced to God’s holy hatred!
Stephanie, we can’t use the whole “Imagine if you couldn’t marry who you love” thing on them. These people clearly don’t know love. And that brings us back to the original topic. People are marrying without love. It’s become just something you “need” to do to fit into culture. Maybe put it on a reality show, etc.
What is all this reap what you sow stuff here for? I agree, maybe my words will Manifest me some hot action one day, whereas all of you will be tortured by your own minds when your own hatred is Manifested back towards you after death until you learn the practice of love and to love yourself and others. That is what Hell is. But you don’t have to wait until it gets to that point. You can learn it now. That is what Salvation is.
Natalie wut you don’t sin? Or are you just calling them “mistakes”? That doesn’t make you any better than anyone.

Stephanie Braddock said...

Natalie, that is ignorant, cruel, and completely untrue. I DO NOT hate Christians! I am a Chrsitian, mind you not a strict one, but I am one all the same. My best friend is a Christian. I pass no judgement or pre-concieved notions over an entire group of people. I base my judgements on observations of individuals. If you think I speak with hate, I'm sorry, but that's not true. I speak with PASSION. I speak of something I think to be true; something I believe more than almost anything else in this moment. You say you do not sin? Wrath is a sin. One you have just commited.

Blackledge said...

LOL, she hasn’t said anything hateful towards Christians. What else is hatred than telling someone they’re biologically inferior to you? What else is hatred than trying to prevent them from experiencing love? What else is hatred than wanting them to suffer and die?
By saying you don’t sin at all, I’m pretty sure that’s a sin. And your hatred definitely is.
If you're saying sexual orientation is a choice, then you're probably either asexual (makes the most sense since you wouldn't know what it feels like at all) or bisexual and just think you're not "supposed" to be with the same sex.

Blackledge said...

I'm so sorry that this is your audience, Michael. I've got to say that of all the discussions I've had on this topic on the internet, this was probably with people with the lowest IQs.

Stephanie Braddock said...

LOL so true. I've also never seen so many comments on your blog before. If only they weren't all ridiculously prejudiced.

Natalie said...

You're right it is their problem we all have to make the choice HEAVEN OR HELL. You're also right about people who sin are not Christians. Listen I make mistakes like you and everyone else for example If you ask me if I play the piano and I tell you know but I really do then I told a lie and the only way to fix it so that I go to heaven is to tell I lied and ask your forgiveness and then ask god to forgive me because all liers will have their part in hell so if I lied to you when it says that in the HOLY BIBLE then do think im going to go to heaven? Yes I have said things that were untrue but I made it right with the person I said it to and GOD and was forgiven of that sin its called making a restitution.

Stephanie Braddock said...

Really? I don't really think you've 'made it right' with me.

Kuhna said...

So ... if homosexuals ask forgiveness, then why should they not go to heaven?

I ask again: If committing one sin dooms you to Hell, then was Jesus' crucifixion all for naught?

And again I say - if everything is between an individual and God, WHAT RIGHT DO YOU HAVE TO CONDEMN THEM YOURSELF? You do not have the right, therefore it is NOT your place to pass judgement on them or for them.

Jeff said...

Stephanie it says in the bible to be angry and sin not Natalie is just angry and I don't blame her she is absolutely right beyond shadow of a doubt.

Natalie said...

What do I need to make right with you???

Stephanie Braddock said...

So condemning a whole group of people you have never met before, just based off of one trait, is "right beyond a shadow of doubt"?

Blackledge said...

If you have to be that much on guard and pray for every little lie you tell so that you don’t burn eternally then I truly feel sorry for you. Humans aren’t supposed to be perfect. That’s not the point at all.
Again, “it says in the bible to be angry” is pretty much the opposite of religion. They’re about love, not anger.

Jeff said...

You're completely innocent you did not only make a mockery of Christians with everything you have had to say but also have gone against the BIBLE and what it teaches us.

Natalie said...

I don't repeatedly lie I just said that if I make a mistake then I ask god to forgive me for it.

Stephanie Braddock said...

NO one is mocking or going against ANYTHING except ignorance, prejudice, and unfairness!You're the ones going against society and half the population!

Natalie said...

So be it. Stephanie Your going against GOD and the laws of nature

Jeff said...

Society makes me sick.

Stephanie Braddock said...

Alright. So now I'm a psychopathic Satanist who hates Christians and the bible. Oh, did I mention I also hate God and I go against the laws of nature? Cause that's what I've been told. Notice how you're hating on everyone pro-gay-marriage, and all we say is that you're being ignorant and unfair.

Anonymous said...

Hey Natalie, pride is a sin and you're acting pretty fucking proud. Get over yourself. You're a mortal, not a saint. "Oooh, I never sin. I am perfect because I ask for it. I never sin ever on any day."

Kuhna said...

Jeff, you're not contributing anything.

Natalie, I feel you've ignored some of my questions.

Natalie said...

Did you know that there was a city back in the bible days that was called Sodom and gomora sorry if that's not how you spell it but any way that city was destroyed by GOD for its wickedness and for the practice of homosexuality there so what does that tell you it definitely doesn't mean that homosexuality is a good thing. That's my final word on the matter you all can sit on here all day and say whatever you want I don't care.

Stephanie Braddock said...

Opinions change! I'm sure God gets bored of being the same all the time; I don't know, I'd change my opinion just for fun.

Jeff said...

Hey whoever said that to Natalie envy is a sin and from the way you talk your extremely jelous

Stephanie Braddock said...

Oh yes, we're all jealous of an obnoxious bitch.

Kuhna said...

Fine then. Don't answer me. I'm going to go have some delicious shrimp scampi - oh wait, God bans shrimp, too, doesn't he? Oh well. Stephanie you want some?

Jeff said...

Now Now children lets not use foul language because were angry and don't understand.

Brittany said...

I'm a Christian. I've attended a fair few Christian churches and have studied scripture. And I am completely for same-sex marriage because it will make others happy (and it doesn't cause actual harm to anyone else). The problem is, you really can't take the Bible literally. Also, if you're going to take one part seriously, you have to take the entirety of it seriously, which is impossible. It's embarrassing that my fellow "Christians" are so full of hate and this whole, "God will punish you!,?,,1" mindset. Stop pretending you're more than just a human. Focus on YOUR relationship with God rather than everyone else's. And above all, help others, accept others for how they are NO MATTER WHAT, and be forgiving.

Anonymous said...

Jeff, who said anything about envy? Someone mentioned pride...

Stephanie Braddock said...

mmm, shrimp's my favorite. And foul language? You're going to call me out on that? That comment wasn't nearly as hurtful as all the others you've directed towards people, so I'm just going to end with a back 'atcha.

Kuhna said...

Now now Jeff let's actually create a well-thought-out argument and not just petty insults and explain it in more than three sentences.

Stephanie Braddock said...

Lol it's official. Kuhna, you're my favorite person here.

Anonymous said...

JEFF IS A TWAT

Anonymous said...

The Bible isn't something some board person just sit down and made up it is the only book that has been around for hundreds of years and is to be taken seriously I don't care if I'm making homosexuals mad they'll get over it and so will you.

Anonymous said...

Seriously, everyone needs to calm down and stop mud slinging! Michael wrote a very clear and well thought out post, and this form of arguing is getting us nowhere fast. Out of respect for each other can we please stop throwing insults. I don't care what side you're arguing, this is not the way to get someone to understand your point.

- Virgil

Anonymous said...

11:55 anon: No, they won't get over it. And neither will the people who support them. What a childish thing to say.

Kuhna said...

Um ... there are many texts that have been here for hundreds of years, and there are several texts older than the Bible.

Breanna(; said...

Thank you virgil. She is right. lets just stop talking about it go outside and get some fresh air there is no point in arguing it is a no win situation.

Stephanie Braddock said...

Yeah, I'm sure homosexuals will just 'get over' being harrassed and bullied by you people; will just 'get over' never belonging or being accepted. Will 'get ovet' living alone their whole lives because you don't agree with their tastes in partners. Grow up, and try to understand some one else's point of view! I understand your's, really I do, I just don't agree. But at least I made an effort.

Anonymous said...

Do you know why people harass and bully them as you like to call. Its because what they believe is CRAZY so why don't you grow up suck it up and shut up.

Anonymous said...

None of this is helpful, and getting on each other's cases, calling each other crazy/ bigoted/ discriminatory/ stupid/ etc. is just going to make you even more angry with each other.

- Virgil

Stephanie Braddock said...

I could say the same for you. Now this is starting to sound a lot like segregation again, isn't it? "Don't defend black people, they're the devil". "Don't let black people marry white people, they are tainted and evil." Don't you see how similar this is sounding?! They all believed in that as strongly as you believe in this, but it was wrong. This is wrong too, just try to understand. Try for some remorse.

Isabelle said...

To all of the Christians out there like myself. God and The Bible ultimately wins in the end no matter who has the last comment so just let it go and let them ramble on and on all they want you did your best to tell them what is right and your job is over its up to them to make the right Choice.

Stephanie Braddock said...

During the time of slavery, people thought the bible told them slavery was okay, too! Can't you see which roles we're cast in? History repeats itself.

Blackledge said...

>The bible is the only book that has been around for hundreds of years
Just beautiful
I’m starting to wonder if these people are just trolls? Because with these words, they seriously shouldn’t be able to operate a computer, let alone feed their selves.
Why do you even care if they “get over it”? You then say they deserve to be destroyed.
lol if you want to take the Bible literally then slavery is actually just as okay as hating homosexuality.
I think this is relevant: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m714aykjNd1r9r1u9o1_500.jpg

Anonymous said...

I think this all begs the question as to whether race and be equated with gender. Thoughts?

- Virgil

Stephanie Braddock said...

I believe it can be. We only distinguish gender by our bodies, but... they're just shells. It's the soul that matters. It's the being. Who cares what they look like?

Kuhna said...

Virgil, when it comes to love, then yes, I suppose. People love PEOPLE. People do not love race or gender. They love PEOPLE.

Isabelle: you're absolutely right. It IS up to them to make the 'right' choice. If gays and lesbians want to get married, then LET THEM. Do not deny them their right to make that choice, because you yourself do not have the right to interfere. Why do you even care?

Brittany said...

Race is as important as gender in the sense that there should be no discrimination. Why? Because we're all human.

That's my opinion though. I think all humans are equal.

Anonymous said...

So, from what a lot of people are saying, it looks like the only basis necessary for a marriage is love between persons?

- Virgil

Stephanie Braddock said...

Of course. We love who we love, no matter what gender. I think these ridiculous hate comments are ridiculous. Unless... You know, many psychologists agree that aggression is really just repressed sexual attraction.

Kuhna said...

In modern times, that is - in times past, and even now, it may be for money, status, politics, honor, etc, but in developed, well-off countries and families, then that is what marriage has been romanticized as.

Anonymous said...

Then why is polygamy seen as so bad, or incest? I'm not trying to bate anyone, I'm just trying to understand the only basis for marriage being love. If there really is no choice in the matter, why are certain things approved and not others?

- Virgil

Kuhna said...

Polygamy I don't really see a moral problem with.

Incest because offspring from incest can lead to disease and biological issues, plus there's the 'weirdness' (from a generalized point of view) of fraternal love turning into romantic love.

Stephanie Braddock said...

I don't hate polygamists, either. Mind you, that I don't quite agree with, because I feel as if it demoralizes women and passes men off as superior, and I feel as if lingering anger and jealousy can ruin the relationship. But if it works... if they're happy, who cares?

Stephanie Braddock said...

And Kuhna says it all about the sibling thing. With adoptive children I think it's fine, but there are birth defects linked to that kind of sibling relationship.

Anonymous said...

There is such a thing as polygamy concerning a woman with multiple husbands. It's not very common, but it is a thing, apparently. Also it takes several generations of incest to have a serious effect on offspring, or at least that is what I understand to be the case. I don't think 'weirdness' should be a factor, as that could be applied to anything we don't particularly agree with. Much like many people and homosexuality, just to draw a parallel.

So, marriage is whatever anyone wants to make of it? Then, why does marriage even exist? If it can be everything, how is it anything?

- Virgil

Stephanie Braddock said...

People like the title and benefits that come with it. They like to know they're linked in some kind of way that's 'other' from spiritual. Not to mention the part religion plays.

Anonymous said...

I would a agree with one point, no one should hate anyone else. We are all equal, but that does not mean we are all the same. Equal does not equal sameness, if that makes sense.

A point I would like to disagree with is about love. Essentially love is a choice, but attraction is not. No one can help who they're attracted to, and because of this you can't be faulted for being attracted to someone. However, loving someone is an active thing, an act of the will. And in being so, love is a choice.

- Virgil

Anonymous said...

I said it before and i'll say it again you people don't intimidate me WHO CARES IF IT MAKES GAYS AND LESBIANS SAD OR MAD OR WHATEVER THEY WILL GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

I second what the person above me said.

Anonymous said...

In that case, I hope you guys have lots of gay babies. God will punish you for your ignorance and make you repent for your sins by blessing you with gay children.

Stephanie Braddock said...

That's bullshit and you know it. I'm sorry about the language, if that bothers you, but honestly, this is ridiculous. You DON'T HAVE TO LIKE GAY PEOPLE. You DON'T HAVE TO CHANGE YOUR OPINION. But this is ridiculous! They still have FEELINGS, they still feel HURT. Why do you want everyone to be a religious freak like you?!

Anonymous said...

How is that remotely helpful? Please, out of respect for Michael, can we please respect each other?

- Virgil

Stephanie Braddock said...

It's not respectful. And I apologize to Michael for that, but this has gotten out of hand. They are making out homosexuals to be animals who don't feel and don't deserve love and happiness. But that is so not true. I have gay and lesbian friends, and they are the nicest people you could ever find. You believe in god? Well let me tell you something. When you die, and when you find out you were wrong, you just remember this: you don't know the will of god. You will never be as good as half the gay people I know. And I still don't understand why you hate these people so much, but I know it's fueled by ignorance. Otherwise, you would just look at or talk to a homosexual person, without knowing their sexual orientation, and think "They're evil", or "They're sinners and they're going to hell." You don't think badly of them until you know what gender they are attracted to. Only then does the discrimination start.

amaya said...

i am amazed its pretty bad to talk nasty on michaels blog and i think the people who did odda be ashamed..... right back at u stephanie u shouldent be allowed to cuss on michaels blog .. i will have u know that there r kids who get on here and the shouldent hafta see bad langauge because someone can control there fingers or thoughts. i believe gays are sick- and say what u want 2 idc , people who r gay r messed up in the head.... shame on the ones who cuss u know better than that dont tell me ya dont...... sincerely amaya

Anonymous said...

Well thank goodness some one has a head on their shoulders thank you Amaya.

Kuhna said...

So people who swear should know better ... but people who degrade and ridicule and bully and ostracize others should not? I can't believe you were brought up to hate like this. I can't believe you think God would approve of your name-calling and your hurtful words.

Anonymous said...

They are animals any real man wouldn't go have .... with another man and neither would a real women that is not discrimination that is discusting and repulsive I would go check myself into a crazy hostpital. To: Stephanie and all of the gays out there.

Anonymous said...

Whoa, whoa, whoa... Everyone calm down. I think we can agree that everyone is equal in dignity. However, not all actions are. We cannot judge the state of someone else's soul, but we can judge the objective rightness or wrongness of someone's actions.

No one is hateful, no one is evil, and no one is stupid! None of us can consign another to hell, that's not our job. People send themselves there by rejecting the goodness and forgiveness of God.

Historically marriage was instituted to safeguard the wellbeing of the children that naturally come from the conjugal union between a man and a woman. It is through the Judeo-Christian tradition that we have come to understand it as a committed relationship between two individuals. Also, in the Christian tradition the procreative and unitive aspects of marriage are given equal standing. These aspects of marriage are inextricably linked, in order to have a marriage in the Christian sense you cannot have one without the other. You need both love between the spouses and the openness to life that naturally arises from conjugal love between a man and a woman.

- Virgil

Kuhna said...

I hope Stephanie does not see your comment, for the sake of her blood pressure which must be past the roof by now ...

Stephanie Braddock said...

Not that it matters, but I'm not gay. Nope, definitely not. And as I said, I apologize for the cursing. I was a bit to preoccupied thinking about how sick and wrong it is to think that way about homosexuals. I understand you don't like them, for whatever strange and incoherent reason. But you do NOT need to blatantly insult them, call them worse than heterosexuals (again we have the slavery mindset here, you would have been great slave owners), and then insult anyone who refuses to sink to your level. I don't think cursing is the worst of the issues here. What do you think children will be more damaged by? Cursing, or discriminatory slander? I'll give you a hint: It's not the first option.

Kuhna said...

And I will say this again: this isn't about sex (or as you put it, ...). This is about love. If someone loves another person, even without intimate activity, what is so wrong about that? Love is love.

And you are not showing God's love by speaking the way you do.

Blacks and other people of color used to be likened to mere animals. If you said that to PoC today, it would be unacceptable.

Stephanie Braddock said...

THANK YOU, Kuhna. You are the only person here who seems to have the same disgust for their hyporcrisy and idiocy as I do. I don't think there is any hope for them; they are so past gone at this point. But I will not sit here, reading these comments, which insult many friends of mine, and not say something back. Because though silence isn't a sin, it should be. I will not be a bystander; that would make me almost as bad as Amaya&Co.

Anonymous said...

I really have to wonder how much influence your parents have when some of you so blatantly state your ignorance and hate towards homosexuality. Are you reiterating your white middle class religious elders' attitude? If you have every right to assume that gay people are to be hated and shunned from what you identify as "normal" society, I then have every right to assume that you live in a corn field and bible thump your "views" at all gays, retards, and blacks.

Open your mind, embrace difference. Not everything is about the Bible. Before you go bashing something you do not understand or have never experienced for yourself, do some research. You'll find that in a few years time, YOU will be the focus of discrimination in some way or other. We might even turn your walmart into a gay bar. My assumption only comes from what you have revealed about yourself in this lovely comment thread, that you're prejudiced, uneducated, and too young to understand or make a coherent argument. I will reply with the same respect you have given those that present a difference of opinion. None.

Anonymous said...

Alright, many of you either cannot or will not be respectful. I have to say that makes me very sad. As relatively mature people we should be able to have a respectful discussion about this matter, but this has gotten out of hand. It is never alright to call someone an animal, or an idiot, particularly when you are trying to prove a point. Sometimes kindness and understanding are the best tools. You don't have to agree, but you do have to respect the position of the other person (or at very least respect the dignity of the other person).

Please read Michael's latest post about moral arguments, I think it's very helpful. And now, ladies and gentleman, I wash my hands of this weirdness.

- Virgil

Anonymous said...

Amaya, omg y u gota hert me lyk dis omg ur so men

Brittany said...

Really, I'm wondering how many of these commenters, especially the anti-same-sex commenters, live incredibly sheltered lives: living in a rural or small community with zero diversity, not young enough to experience the outside world, being raised by parents who grew up in the same conditions and never left, only getting news coverage from Fox News, and so on and so forth...because it really sounds like these people have never encountered others who were different. Maybe their only exposure to homosexuality was the bashing from their church, or seeing a pride parade on TV and being somehow damaged from it. Some of these commenters sound like they're just spewing out the lies and hatred they've heard from their parents and/or church leaders. It's disgusting. If you're going to claim your Christian and all good and kind and everything, then act like it. Most of the hate I've been seeing in this thread has been from the religious side.

I've said it earlier and I'll say it again - no one has to dumb down or censor what they say because of the possibility if children reading this. If you are, in fact, a child or classify as one, please step forward so I can be enlightened.

Anonymous said...

Stephanie you are nothing but a self centered Jerk. Guess what GAYS ARE CRAZY MIXED UP PEOPLE THAT HAVE A TWISTED OUTLOOK on life and I don't care what you think they are freaks.

Anonymous said...

Gays are freaks they have no life every body sing it with me.

Stephanie Braddock said...

Let me see if I got this all down. I'm a psychopathic Satanist that goes against nature, God, and the bible. I, being Catholic, obviously have an intense hatred of my own religion and I'm just plain dangerous and belong in a mental ward. Apparently I'm also gay, sick, and I have a mental illness. I belong in a crazy hospital, and should not be allowed to poison the minds of others like I am. I am also self centered for defending people. Nice to know; why did no one tell me? Well, thank you sweethearts. Did you miss any other insult you wanted to throw at me? I'm all ears.

Anonymous said...

WHAT DO WE SAY TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH THAT TOUCHES BOYS?

Anyone want to quote some bible verses to me on that? Because, yes, of course, religion definitely has all the answers.

If you can't marry 'em just touch 'em.

Anonymous said...

No I think that's just about it you summed yourself up to a T.

Anonymous said...

She just said she was catholic so that Michael would agree with her haha how funny. I happen to know a whole lot of catholics and none of them believe the sick stuff you do.

Anonymous said...

Intolerance breeds hate aka your parents and you. gtfo.

Anonymous said...

Seriously, people? Knock it off! You're all fighting insults with insults.

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